Interviews

“Who Is Interested? Well, I Am”

A Conversation With Pink Floyd Drummer Nick Mason

By Bob Gendron

Pink Floyd’s forthcoming reissue series may represent the final time that a major artist’s full catalog receives the deluxe treatment in the manner of enhanced CDs, multiple box sets, redesigned packaging, and auxiliary analog reissues. In an era where most significant artists already witnessed their output re-released in remastered form, and where record labels are increasingly reluctant to manufacture box sets or invest in fancy physical media, EMI is celebrating the British group’s legacy with an exhaustive project that has few peers.

Going well beyond that of EMI’s excellent Beatles remasters series, Pink Floyd’s rollout features reconfigured sound, artwork, inserts, and more—as well as various multi-disc sets that include scads of unreleased and/or rare audio and visual footage. While the reissues don’t street until late September, drummer Nick Mason—the band’s only contiguous member—recently talked with editor Bob Gendron about various details, memories, and procedures related to the massive campaign. In clarifying truths and recalling history, his insightful comments will likely surprise even the most diehard Floyd fans and committed audiophiles.

B: You’ve heard Pink Floyd’s studio records countless times. What jumps out at you when you listen to the new remasters?

N: The thing that strikes me is not so much the quality, although that is interesting and improved. But [the pleasure] really comes from listening to things that I’ve forgotten about. For all of our career, we never really ever revisited old demos or leftover material. The tendency has always been to put that to one side when the record is finished or when we’ve moved on and started doing other shows. Sometimes, you come across ideas that are still quite fresh or interesting, and while they were superceded by some new idea, they still have validity in their own right.

B: Is there anything specific you heard that you feel the band should have revisited?

N: The one that astonishes me that we didn’t pick up on is a version of “Wish You Were Here” that has [violinist] Stephane Grappelli playing on it. First of all, it was just a delight to hear because I always understood that it had been recorded over and we had no record of it. But also, when I did hear it, I was astonished. And I haven’t done so yet, but I must ask Roger and David if they can remember why on earth we didn’t use it. It’s still incredibly powerful.

B: Having had the chance to survey the catalog again, what is the single piece of music  closest to your heart?

N: A version of “On the Run,” recorded long before we actually put it together on the record with the VCS3 tape loop, where it’s played as sort of a jazz piece. It has a rather uptempo drum thing. I listened to it and thought, ‘Good lord, is that me playing?’ I hardly recognize the band, the style, or anything else. That sort of surprise is terrific.

B: Take me through some memories conjured up by the bonus material.

N: It conjures memories of touring in the early to mid 1970s, and putting on those shows. If you looked at the concerts now, you’d just think they were quaint—that’s the word for it. They are so small compared to not what we later did, but to what everyone does now. Virtually every artist today would expect to do quite a lot of staging and music production wherever they are playing. It’s that thing of remembering—the very early cherry pickers, for instance. Hydraulic towers with mounted lights. They are tiny now, but at the time, it was a really groundbreaking idea that you actually carried all of this stage lighting with you and made it part of the show.

B: Would you deem The Wall production “quaint” as well?

N: Quaint is the right word. The Wall came later, but if you look at, for instance, the Ummagumma sleeve: There is a picture of our touring crew and all of our equipment laid out. Well, most people have that in their back room now. It all fits into a small van. But at the time, it seemed like a gigantic amount of stuff. The Wall is interesting because the version that Roger is doing now is a fantastic leap—not so much musically because he’s adhered very rigorously to the original parts played on the record—in terms of the movie parts that have been added to the show. It’s fantastic, and absolutely 30 years further down the line.

B: Speaking of visuals, do you recall being associated with the visual content that’s now included on the box sets?

N: The visuals divide into different periods. There are three major periods: The stuff we originally did for Dark Side of the Moon, which was done by various people. There was an animator named Ian Eames who did a particular series of clocks that have stood the test of time. And then there was a second wave of film done by Hungarian film director Peter Medak. And then, finally, the Gerald Scarfe film that was done for Wish You Were Here. The interesting thing with his stuff is that some of it moved on; it was the forerunner of what got used in The Wall. I’m so used to computer animation now. The actual technology is quite clunky, but the visuals are stunning.

B: To what extent was the band involved in the visual design of the album artwork?

N: There’s no easy answer to that. Not unlike the way the music was put together, it was very different from image to image. The most famous one, the prism, by Storm [Thorgerson], arrived at the studio as five different rough ideas. Within an instant, all of us agreed that the prism was absolutely the right thing, and to go with Storm’s idea. We just rubber-stamped it immediately. There are other visuals where we went backwards and forwards, and in a few cases, there were ideas that initially came from the band and then, Storm developed them. Generally those ideas were less successful—I think Storm would back me up on that. [Laughs]

B: What’s your take on the reissue redesigns?

N: Terrific, because I’m of an age where I really do see physical records disappearing and regret that [trend]—and regret all of the artwork that goes with them. This is maybe not the very last chance, but very late on for Storm to really have another look at things, decide which is best, and add some new bits and pieces. For me, that’s one of the great attractions of the reissue project. We can make sure that every piece of visual art we’ve done, plus a bit more, is made available and there for the record, so to speak.

B: How long has the reissue project been in progress?

N: It’s been in the works for a couple of years. Of course, what happened is that the idea was mentioned two years ago and a lot of the push came from the record company, EMI, which said, ‘You know, you really ought to do this.’ We were initially very lukewarm. We felt that we’d done virtually every version of the catalog that we possibly could. But as the first year went by, we started unearthing more product that could go into it. And then we found ourselves becoming interested in it. It began to make more and more sense. For me, it was the realization that I actually [explore] with other artists. Like with jazz albums; I’ll go out and buy an eight-album John Coltrane box set, which is full of outtakes. And you think, well, ‘Who is interested?’ Well, I am. So if I’m interested in it with an artist, it makes sense to let our fans have access to such material.

B: Is the rare footage coming from personal or record label archives?

N: Most of it has come from EMI’s archives rather than our own. The only things that I’ve turned out have been some very early demos that we made before we were even signed, which contains some very nice Syd Barrett songs. But for the most part, it’s been EMI. The company has very extensive vaults and pretty good cataloging. But what happened this time is that there was a much more concerted effort to look through the archives. The trouble is that, like most archives, there are always a few things that have been miscataloged or haven’t been properly checked. This time, quite a lot of stuff was brought up from the vaults, listened to, and checked. That is how, for instance, the Grappelli version of “Wish You Were Here” got discovered.

B: The multichannel options seemingly parallel the unreleased material in that they represent new horizons for the listener. Do you think surround makes for a better experience?

N: I’m fond of the 5.1 and so on. I think it gives an extra depth to the music. But we’re all coming to terms with the fact that the embracing of the digital revolution wasn’t entirely satisfactory. It’s really interesting how many people are talking about going back to vinyl. You know, when I say ‘a lot of people,’ I mean a tiny percentage. I don’t think it’s really going to catch on. But there is still enormous enthusiasm for that warm, particularly odd sound you get from vinyl. And it’s not the cleanest, most accurate sound. But it does have this quality that people really like. To some extent, it will be really interesting to see the feedback. I’m not sure in this day and age how many people still have stereo sets capable of giving them the full effect. I was just talking with some people at breakfast this morning about the technical side of the reissues, and I said, ‘Maybe we should put a sort of health warning and say it is not advised to buy this record unless you have speakers that require at least two men to carry them into the room.’ [Laughs]

B: Regarding sonics, were you conscious when you were recording albums—especially Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall—that they would be, more than 30 years on, be used as references by producers, engineers, and audiophiles?

N: No. It’s astonishing in some ways. I think anyone who went into rock and roll in the 60s or early 70s entered into it with the belief that it was rock and roll and it was ephemeral and that it would be all over. Anything that you produced would last around a year, and in your working life, you’d be lucky to get five years. Of course, it changed. It became a completely different thing. The point I would like to get across is that if the quality of some of this stuff is so good—and I believe it is—it’s a testament to Abbey Road and the people that worked there and the systems they had in place in the 60s, where the kids joined as apprentices and really learned the trade of making records and miking things up and going for the highest standards of loading the tape.

B: It’s shocking to hear you admit that, even in the wake of The Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Pink Floyd believed it would disappear without a trace within a few years.

N: [Laughs] We’re all very privileged and lucky to have had a 40-odd-year career out of it. Obviously, after the first 10 or 15 years, you realize it’s not likely going to go away. But initially, in the late 60s, when we kicked off and had no idea where this would lead or end up, it’s what we thought.

An intimate four-day gathering of psychedelic, avant-garde, heavy, and nearly every other imaginable cutting-edge sonic delight, Roadburn Festival is without peer. Every April, dozens of bands and eager listeners from more than 40 countries descend upon a quaint town in the Netherlands to share in a common love of sensory-absorbing music, underground art, and likeminded discussion. It’s not difficult to understand why.

Unlike most festivals, Roadburn is focused and small; boundaries between the performers and audience are practically nonexistent. Due to its international reputation, unparalleled vision, and limited capacity, the multi-day event sells out within minutes. Indeed, Roadburn has become the gold standard in a music industry that’s increasingly more reliant on festivals. This year’s lineup represents a veritable wet dream for any metal, experimental, or doom fan: Sunn O))), Godflesh, Shrinebuilder, Winter, Trap Them, Corrosion of Conformity, Keiji Haino, The Secret, Earth, and Swans are just some of the names involved.

TONE is honored and humbled by the organizers’ invitation to attend Roadburn 2011. Our forthcoming report will serve as the magazine’s cover feature in Issue 37. In the meantime, to get an even better understanding of Roadburn’s history, purpose, and unique characteristics, we talked with festival organizer—and fellow audiophile—Walter Hoeijmakers via email. All festival directors should bring his level of passion, insight, and dedication to the fore.

BG: Roadburn began as a website but ultimately turned into a festival. Can
you give some background on how the music festival came about, and when you
started?

“At the very beginning, we just wanted to convey the overall feel of the website onto the stage. We started out very small by inviting several bands that we had featured on the website. Plus, we wanted to project parts of the website’s artwork behind the bands, and also have deejays spinning the music we were covering. Along the way, we started to experiment with live streams since we also sought to keep up with Internet’s progress. There was no real master plan; but nothing was contrived, either. We just did what felt best, and got tons of creative input along the way. All of this cumulated into the 10th Roadburn festival in 2005, which became the blueprint for the festival as we know it today.”

Most festivals are sprawling affairs that involve tens of thousands of people and vague artistic focus. Roadburn is the opposite. It strives to melt any boundaries between artists, fans and organizers. How do you manage to accomplish this? And what motivated you to set these goals?

“We want Roadburn to be a small, intimate, and well-organized festival. We love the bands, and thrive on creating a unique social vibe by emphasizing the cutting edge and honoring the forefathers. This is all joined together by a love of music. We’re not thriving on financial goals, neither do we want to be the next ‘best outdoor festival.’ Our main goal is to bring together a diverse group of artists that push the envelope, are truly original, and inspire us all with the unspeakable fire flowing through their art. It’s a gathering of kindred spirits, bands, and fans alike, and the lines between them are often completely blurred as they all worship the power of sound together. At Roadburn, most bands don’t hang out backstage: They can be found down in front!”

Tickets for this year’s festival sold out in about 15 minutes. The fest is now an internationally recognized phenomenon. Do you have any idea how many countries are represented by the people attending? Do you remember how long it took the first festival to sell out?

“The first-ever Roadburn Festivals didn’t sell out at all. We sold out in 2003 for the very first time when the festival took place at the Effenaar club in Eindhoven; 450 people showed up. Then, in 2006, Roadburn sold out a few days prior to the festival. We had moved to the 013 venue in Tilburg, and offered 1750 tickets. It was crazy to see that approximately 70% of our attendees were from abroad and not from the Netherlands. These figures still stand today, as we have about 44 different nationalities attending the festival. They descend upon Tilburg from the world over, ranging from the USA and South America to Australia and Japan, and all the European countries in between. For Roadburn 2011, we’re even welcoming people from Singapore and Indonesia. It’s something that still amazes me today as we just started the festival out of a labor of love, and still do it for that very reason.”

As the organizer, can you share what your duties involve and how early you start planning? Once the festival begins, are you able to enjoy it or are you too busy managing logistics?

“We start planning one year in advance. I’m already working on Roadburn 2012 even though the 2011 edition has yet to take place. Unfortunately, I’m not able to see much at the festival as I’m often busy micro-managing. I always tend to spend time with bands and attendees, and as soon as I’m able to catch up with them, you’ll find me backstage or talking to all the wonderful people in the venue’s hallways. Sometimes I can enjoy a band. There’s always a show that I’m trying to catch in its entirety, and it’s my goal to catch several this year. I desperately want to see likes of Wovenhand and Shrinebuilder, among others. Luckily, we record most performances for the on-demand audio streams, and I catch up with everything at home when listening to the steams.”

The lineup for Roadburn 2011 is any metal and underground music fan’s dream. How do you go about inviting artists? Do you start with a wish list? Do certain bands contact you expressing their desire?

“Both Jurgen van den Brand (Roadburn’s co-organizer) and I start out with a band list. We have a pretty good idea of the bands we’d like to invite for the festival. The list keeps changing throughout the year, and we’re very proactive by approaching the bands ourselves. It’s always very rewarding if certain bands on our list start to approach us. It’s in the spirit of the festival, and makes confirming their involvement easy. On a personal note, I’ve been around in the underground scene for more than 25 years and happen to know many bands personally, as well as lots of bookings agents, managers, and journalists. This is really helpful, because getting in touch with certain bands is really easy for me. The Roadburn phenomenon also helps to get in touch with bands that I don’t know on a personal level.”

You were able to get Keiji Haino, Caspar Brotzmann Massaker, Ufomammut, and at least a half dozen other bands that can be considered nothing less than coups for any festival. How does one go about doing this?

“Keiji Haino and Caspar Brotzmann Massaker have been invited by Sunn O))) for their curated Roadburn event. We asked [Sunn O))) leaders] Greg Anderson and Stephen O’Malley to open up the styles and sounds of the festival, and they did a great job. Their curated day is nothing short of amazing, and a tribute to some master guitarists that influenced them as artists. Offering a day of the festival to a curating band or artist is of great help in getting coups for Roadburn. It inspires other bands to be part of the festival as well, as they want to be among their peers in an intimate setting—which is Roadburn.”

This year’s lineup has a definite psychedelic and doom flavor. Was this intentional? If so, are there any bands that you targeted that, for some reason, you weren’t able to get for the festival?

“It all happened naturally. When we started to work on this year’s Roadburn festival, we noticed some very interesting doom and psychedelic bands that we really liked. It’s part of our mission to put emphasis on the cutting edge. Thus, inviting these bands was inevitable, and pushed Roadburn 2011 in a more doomy and dark psychedelic direction. We love evolving the festival in manners like this to keep it interesting for our attendees. In the end, the festival should be a tribute to the open minds of bands and attendees alike. As far as bands we wanted but didn’t get, it would have been great if we could have had The Obsessed for Roadburn 2011, but we couldn’t pull of the reunion yet!”

There’s an incredible balance between new and older bands on the bill, i.e., with highly influential veterans such as COC, Pentagram, Godflesh, and Earth sharing the bill with relative newcomers such as The Secret, Liturgy, et al. Was this by design?

“We want Roadburn to be a well-balanced festival and do everything to keep it that way even if it means that we have to pass on certain opportunities. In order to keep the balance, several great bands didn’t make it on this year’s lineup. However, we remain in touch with these bands for future Roadburn festivals since they are good reference points for next year’s direction.”

Is there anything that you are doing for this year’s festival that improves upon what you did in the past?

“We keep improving every year, whether it’s about backlines, projections, crowd control, food vendors, a merchandise venue, or the metal disco. We want to maintain the laidback vibe of the festival as much as we possibly can. Luckily, the incredible staff of the 013 venue, home of Roadburn, is of great help—they are a main part of the festival, too.”

What advice what you give somebody who has never been to Roadburn?

“Go with the flow. Don’t try to catch as many bands as you’d like or get distracted by some overlaps. Please immerse yourself in the laidback vibe of the festival, and enjoy the company of all these like-minded people. Then you’ll experience the camaraderie amongst the festivalgoers and end up seeing some amazing bands you didn’t intend to see while making new friends along the way.”

You’ve been there from the start. Can you share a few favorite memories?

“There are way too many stories to be told. Maybe I should write a book some day about all the shenanigans and debauchery behind the scenes—hahaha! All joking aside, if someone would have told me 25 years ago that I would run a festival like Roadburn and collaborate with either Neurosis, Tom G Warrior (of Celtic Frost and Triptykon), Saint Vitus, or Hawkwind, I simply wouldn’t believe them. It all just happened.”

Is there any single band or performance this year that you can’t wait to see?

“As I said earlier, I’m really looking forward to seeing Dave Eugene Edward’s Wovenhand at Roadburn. It’s an incredible coup for the festival to have the band on the bill. At first glimpse, Wovenhand is a little off-kilter, as Roadburn tends to be an underground festival for psychedelic, avant-garde, doom, or any other variation of leftfield sonic pleasures that push the boundaries of music. But Wovenhand will prove that making really heavy music does not necessarily mean having the loudest guitar or the most amps.”

You’re obviously a huge music fan. And the intimate construction of the festival suggests that you appreciate good sound. Are you interested in audio gear? If so, on what kind of system do you listen to music at home?

“I have been fascinated by audio gear and spent lots of money on speakers, interlinks, tweaks, and the like over the years—just like many of TONE’s readers, I suppose. For the last 8 years, I’ve been really enjoying my Marantz Music Link series (preamp, phono preamp and monoblocks). My current set of speakers is Floating Systems’ Synthese.

“I’m in love with my mid-70s Ariston RD 11 turntable (it’s the predecessor of Linn’s LP12) plus SME tonearm. As far as cartridges go, I’m sticking to a Grado Statement Wood—amazing warmth, and perfect for my vast collection of 60s and 70s rock on vinyl. “I prefer vinyl over CDs any time, but have an experimental CD player that’s custom-built by a Swiss audio geek. I bought it relatively cheap. Sometimes you need to be lucky!”

As witty and fun in person as he is on record, Flaming Lips frontman Wayne Coyne is full of big ideas. With his band having just released Embryonic and an updated version of Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon, he reflected on the process of putting out two records in such a short time and how the group decided to take on such a classic recording.

While available as an iTunes download since December, the album will be available on LP this Saturday in honor of Record Store Day, for $24.

TONE: How long was the Dark Side project in the making?

WC: As we were finishing Embryonic, the iTunes management wanted some exclusive bonus tracks for the iTunes store, and quite frankly, we didn’t have any. I posed the question of us doing Dark Side of the Moon because I knew my nephew’s band (the White Dwarfs) was very familiar with it and I knew it could be really fun. Ten minutes later, the Apple guys were happy with the idea and we were off.

TONE: Were there any snags in the production? Did you hit a point where you felt that perhaps you had too much of a mountain to climb?

WC: When we got together in the studio, it all fell together relatively quickly and was pretty painless. It was the same thing with Peaches; she raps a lot but she’s a crazy singer. Her vocal to “Great Gig in the Sky” was fantastic – that’s a tough one for anyone to pull off.

TONE: Who decided to have Henry Rollins do the voiceovers? Are you guys big Rollins fans, or did you just decide at lunch that he was the man?

WC: We already knew Henry and we all agreed he would be perfect if his schedule would permit. When we ran it past him, he responded almost instantly. It was all done remotely. We sent him the music and he sent back the tracks we needed, along with plenty of alternates to choose from. Henry is a great guy to work with.

TONE: It was very cool that you took such a creative perspective on Dark Side by making it such a different piece of music. It’s good to see that you just didn’t go Dream Theater on it.

WC: (laughs) Well, we wanted to make sure it had our stamp on it.

TONE: Having recently finished Embryonic, was it grueling to put out another record two months later? Was it tough to keep two very different streams of creativity straight in your brain?

WC: Actually, Embryonic was released in a relatively short time for us—only about three-to-four months. By the end of the record, we had been going in a certain direction with the things we learned from the Embryonic sessions, so the new direction with Dark Side was a fairly easy transition.

TONE: The current tour shows dates from March to June here in the US. Are you guys taking some time off now?

WC: We have more things to announce, but we can’t chat about that right now. When I talked to someone about the idea of doing Bonaroo this year, it was on the Internet in 30 minutes and pretty much all around the world instantly. So we are definitely on the roster, but I’m hesitant to let anything out right now, as I know it will be on Facebook in about 8 minutes.

TONE: Will the Lips play Dark Side anywhere else besides at Bonaroo? Speaking of that fest, Steve Martin is going to be playing banjo there. Will you guys invite him up onstage to collaborate? That would be trippy!

WC: Now that’s a great idea. Let’s formally announce right here that we will try to get Steve Martin to perform a song with us at Bonaroo. And we will be performing DSOM in its entirety at Bonaroo. If you get a chance, listen to Steve Martin’s autobiography, which he narrates on iTunes. It’s very interesting and lends a lot of depth to his personality. We listened to it on a long road trip recently and it was much more engaging than Obama’s autobiography.

TONE: How has Dark Side been received? Has it added to or distracted from the material on Embryonic, seeing that both records were released so closely together?

WC: Good question. So far, our fans seem to be enjoying both records equally. It’s always our hope that you can enjoy the spectrum of what we do. I’m glad people still love and talk about Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, but I always hope they will enjoy the latest work as well.

TONE: Was Steven Colbert a pretty cool cat when you recently played his show? Is he a big Flaming Lips fan?

WC: Playing the “Colbert Report” was great. Steven is an outstanding host and a really hard-working guy. He’s there before you are, making sure everything is in its place, etc. A lot of the guys on his staff are big fans too, so it was a great experience.

TONE: Do you get tired of people referring to you as a psychedelic band? I always like to think of the Flaming Lips as a highly complex band.

WC: I look at the psychedelic label as just the ability to be a little more creative with what we do, not sticking to a particular song structure or music structure. I’m 49 years old, so my interpretation of psych is perhaps a little different than some of our fans in their 20s who don’t have the same perspective on the Grateful Dead or punk rock. But it’s still more of a creative way to look at things.

TONE: You made a comment a while back, saying, “Hovering above complete failure gives you a lot of creative freedom.” I’d hope you guys are doing a bit better than that these days.

WC: In order for us to live our dream of making music, touring, and the like, you have to have a certain level of organization and discipline to make it all work. We have to keep everyone fed, so they can keep making music.

Photo, courtesy J.Michelle Martin-Coyne